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Bertie8203Offline
Post subject: Some Questions from a New CD28 Owner  PostPosted: Nov 19, 2012 - 10:53 PM



Joined: Oct 09, 2012
Posts: 18
Boat Summary: DREAMTIME, Marion MA, 1985, Hardtop Cruiser, Hull# 021
Status: Offline
Greetings folks,

I only recently joined the forum and previously posted a few queries prior to closing on a 1985 CD 28 cruiser and got some very helpful advice. I am hoping I can get a bit more, now that I have completed purchase of the boat, delivered it from Denton MD to Galesville MD and will have it hauled for the winter this week. The boat, by the way is named DREAMTIME (Hull #021, Westerbeke 100 engine) which, I notice, is not included in the list of known hulls.

I have three questions resulting from a recommendation made in a marine surveyor's pre-purchase report plus my experience thus far with the 2 day delivery of the boat.

1. the marine surveyor recommended that I install either a fire port in the engine room hatch to allow a fire to be extinguished without opening the hatch and/or an automatic fire fighting in the engine room itself. Checking this out against the ABYC Standards, I see that this is consistent with the recommendations but I have to say, I have never had such controls installed in any previous boats (all of which were sailboats with diesel engines). The fire suppression system sounds way too complicated for my tastes so I think I would go with the fire port. Has anybody had experience with installing a fire port in their engine room hatch and, if so, any suggestions on the best way to do this??
2. Access to the engine room is much better than what I am used to but I have already started wondering about options for improving access even further so as to encourage regular monitoring of engine systems, the important parts of which (dipstick, fuel filters, batteries) are beneath the port side engine hatch which has the cabin table sitting on top of it. I have already discovered that it is very difficult to put the cabin table back into its mounting tube once it has been removed so, what I have been doing to access the port side of the engine is to raise the starboard engine hatch and then slide the entire hatch across to the starboard side of the boat.....this sort of works but I can't help wondering whether it would be better re-construct the hatch so it has two fore and aft sections which are not hinged together and can be lifted out independently. The cabin table would sit on the aft section making it easy to lift out the forward section to check most engine systems (the batteries would be the only exception) prior to starting the engine, etc... Has anyone done anything like this?? Can anyone see anything really stupid about this idea??
3. DREAMTIME used to have an autopilot but the previous owner (PO) removed it. I haven't had an opportunity to talk to the PO but I suspect that he removed it because there is a lot of slack in the cable-drive steering system (which I think is original) which, presumably, prevented the autopilot from maintaining a steady course. Is this a problem that owners commonly encounter?? Is it possible to tighten up the original push-pull cable steering system?, or is it better to replace the system with something more modern (either improved cable or hydraulic)? Any other suggestions about autopilot options. I have great exepriences with Simrads in the past and am thinking about installing a basic Simrad system such as an AP24 if I can figure out how to overcome the sloppy steering issue. Any suggestions on what has worked best in Cape Dorys would be appreciated.

Look forward to any advice you may have to offer....

Regards..............Bertie
 
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djmarchandOffline
Post subject: RE: Some Questions from a New CD28 Owner  PostPosted: Nov 26, 2012 - 08:47 PM



Joined: Oct 15, 2010
Posts: 31

Status: Offline
Bertie:

Here are some thoughts re your questions:

1. Fire ports aren't common but I had one on a 1996 Jeanneau sailboat. It was a hole in the front of the engine compartment, just behind the companion way ladder and was covered with a plastic plug. When you needed it (and when you need it, you need it) you pulled the plug and shot a fire extinguisher into the engine compartment. One other plus to that boat was it had battery swithes external to the engine compartment.

The CD does have an external switch and it would be easy enough to find a plasitc plug and drill a hole to fit. Mine which is a gasser came with a Fireboy extinguisher system, but I agree with you that it is overkill for a diesel.

2. Yes opening both hatches is a pain in the ass. I did what you did and pulled both sides over to starboard until I got smart and removed the table. I can now open up the starboard and then flip the whole thing over to port and stand it up against the settee. I don't miss the table and it opens up the settee. It does leave a big hole in the engine cover to deal with.

3. The autopilot as you describe it sounds like a helm pilot where the actuator mounts over the helm and rotates the wheel. A much better autopilot which I have on my boat has a hydraulic actuator that drives the rudder directly. There is no interaction with the cable steering, other than when the rudder turns, the helm turns as a result of the cables pushing and pulling. Yes the cable steering is sloppy, but I don't kow how to improve its response.

I suspect that you can't add on to the helm steering that you have and a new hydraulicaly actuated system is the way to go. I have had good luck with Raymarine, but Garmin and Simrad (I had a Robertson/Simrad which worked great) are also good. Get a hydraulic actuator, not an electric linear drive. Hydraulic inherently works better.

David
 
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Bertie8203Offline
Post subject: Some Questions from a New CD28 Owner  PostPosted: Nov 26, 2012 - 11:16 PM



Joined: Oct 09, 2012
Posts: 18
Boat Summary: DREAMTIME, Marion MA, 1985, Hardtop Cruiser, Hull# 021
Status: Offline
David,

Thanks for the advice.

I'll think about drilling and plugging a hole in the cabin sole for the fire hatch.....maybe as part of trying to do something about the engine room access.....although your idea of just getting rid of the cabin table also sounds like something to look into.

As for the auto pilot....I take your point that a hydraulic driven auto pilot would be separate from the cable steering system and so would not have the same sloppy steering problem. I have been thinking of installing a Simrad AP24, which seems to be the simplest system currently on the market although nowhere near as simple as the Simrad WP30 I have on my sailboat, which has no gauges or readouts but it works directly on the helm and, as you noted, I just don't think there is room to fit that sort of system on the CD 28.....

Bertie
 
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49northOffline
Post subject: RE: Some Questions from a New CD28 Owner  PostPosted: Nov 27, 2012 - 01:20 AM



Joined: Nov 27, 2012
Posts: 17

Status: Offline
I recently replaced the Teleflex cable in my 1988 CD Open Fisherman, after the steering seized while underway (another story). The steering had a lot of slack in it, which I believe was due to worn gears in the steering hub (also replaced). After replacement the steering is much firmer, with very little slack. The parts aren't very expensive, but the cable installation is a chore. The mechanic was careful to firmly attach a fish wire to the old cable, as there are a few sharp turns and limber holes the cable has to snake through.

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1988 Open Fisherman
Vancouver, Canada
 
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Bertie8203Offline
Post subject: RE: Some Questions from a New CD28 Owner  PostPosted: Nov 27, 2012 - 11:29 PM



Joined: Oct 09, 2012
Posts: 18
Boat Summary: DREAMTIME, Marion MA, 1985, Hardtop Cruiser, Hull# 021
Status: Offline
Is the Teleflex the original steering system that came with the boat?? I looked in the manual but I can't find any reference to the particular system that was installed beyond saying it is a cable system that requires little maintenance.

As for the installation.....is this something that a DIYer could do with a bit of patience or would it be better to get a proper mechanic to do as you did?

Any advice much appreciated....

Bertie
 
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49northOffline
Post subject: RE: Some Questions from a New CD28 Owner  PostPosted: Nov 28, 2012 - 03:02 AM



Joined: Nov 27, 2012
Posts: 17

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Hi, Bertie. I don't know if this was the original cable, but it might well have been. It is made up of a fixed outer housing and a moving inner cable. It's a simple system with little to go wrong, but over time the lube dries up, the cables corrode and the inner cable stops moving so freely. Having seen how tight the fit between outer and inner cable is, I don't think it would be possible to feed lube to reach the middle of a 14' cable length. If your steering feels stiff, that's probably an indication that the cable is due for replacement.
I think a DIY'er could do this job, but you'll need two of you - one feeding and pushing the cable (it's like a super-stiff big gauge wire cable) and one pulling. Again, I would make sure the "fish" cable is securely attached. Without that to pull the new cable through, I don't know how you would get it through the various openings.
Where I found it diffcult was where the cable comes up from the bilge and into the back of the steering console. Access is limited, and the opening has over time been filled up with more electronics cables. We really had to push and tug to get the cable through there. I find swearing helps.
Replacing the steering hub was pretty straightforward - at least for the mechanic! I think this was the source of my slack steering - after replacement the difference is remarkable. From about 1/8 turn of slack there is now negligible slack in the steering.
During my seized-steering episode, I had to really reef on the wheel, and I could feel the gears in the hub stripping - I was up to almost half a turn of slack before the whole system locked up. I think those gears are pretty soft.
Anyways, hope this helps. Good luck!

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1988 Open Fisherman
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Bertie8203Offline
Post subject: RE: Some Questions from a New CD28 Owner  PostPosted: Nov 28, 2012 - 07:16 PM



Joined: Oct 09, 2012
Posts: 18
Boat Summary: DREAMTIME, Marion MA, 1985, Hardtop Cruiser, Hull# 021
Status: Offline
Very helpful advice. I really appreciate it.

I think I will start with the steering hub to see how much I can tighten things up there and then maybe move onto the cable.
 
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49northOffline
Post subject: RE: Some Questions from a New CD28 Owner  PostPosted: Mar 01, 2013 - 05:47 PM



Joined: Nov 27, 2012
Posts: 17

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Hi, Bertie. How did the steering repair go?

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1988 Open Fisherman
Vancouver, Canada
 
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Bertie8203Offline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 01, 2013 - 06:23 PM



Joined: Oct 09, 2012
Posts: 18
Boat Summary: DREAMTIME, Marion MA, 1985, Hardtop Cruiser, Hull# 021
Status: Offline
It hasn't gone yet. The guys down at the yard concluded that it will not be possible to install an autopilot that will work off the steering wheel mechanism. Better to go with something that works directly on the rudder quadrant (there was originally such a system inststalled on the boat, because some of the components are still in place--not sure why it was taken out)--this should be simpler and will also obviate the need to fix up the sloppy steering although there are planning to take up some of the slack on the steering rod to try and lessen it.
 
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